Windows 10 Anniversary Update preparations: latest happenings from build labs to anticipations #a11y #WinTenOld


 

Hi everyone,

 

Some latest updates on Windows 10 Version 1607 (Anniversary Update) happenings:

 

·         Free upgrade offer will indeed expire on July 29, 2016 except for specific audiences (in particular, those using assistive technologies).

·         A new tool is being introduced to do a complete clean install of Windows 10 that wipes OEM software.

·         Latest Insider build is in 1437x range (as of June 25, 2016), which includes fixes for feedback provided by Insiders during the last bug bash (a few days ago).

·         You can now tie your Microsoft account to digital licenses in the event you need to install Windows after changing major hardware components (motherboard in particular).

·         Windows 10 Mobile devices with Near Field Communication (NFC) chips can support wireless payments.

·         Due to change in how toasts are displayed, third-party screen readers will not be able to announce toasts automatically (only Narrator does at this time). This problem was reported to Microsoft.

·         For Insiders: Narrator will no longer boost speaking rate in specific situations.

·         A new command (Windows+F) has been added to launch Feedback Hub (a replacement for Windows Feedback and Insider Hub apps).

·         Expected release date of Version 1607 is end of July (around the 29th).

 

Note that the above update is for those using stable Windows 10 build (10586/Version 1511). Until it comes out, the main avenue for discussing technical matters related to Redstone is Insiders subgroup, with Redstone discussions on the parent list being aimed at preparing people for this upgrade and for Insiders to give you their thoughts so they can help you with the new stable version once released. The next report on Redstone happenings will be sent out in about two weeks’ time.

 

Cheers,

Joseph


Kevin Chao
 



On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 7:09 PM Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi everyone,

 

Some latest updates on Windows 10 Version 1607 (Anniversary Update) happenings:

 

·         Free upgrade offer will indeed expire on July 29, 2016 except for specific audiences (in particular, those using assistive technologies).


How does Microsoft know if a user is using assistiv technology? Is it being being programmatically determined via an UIA (accessibility API) flag? If so, this may be a disability-privacy-disclosure concern.
 

·         A new tool is being introduced to do a complete clean install of Windows 10 that wipes OEM software.


What's the a11y-ux of this tool? i.e. is it fully screen reader accessible?

·         Latest Insider build is in 1437x range (as of June 25, 2016), which includes fixes for feedback provided by Insiders during the last bug bash (a few days ago).


Are there fixes for Edge accessibility? It's a major painpoint in WIn10 screen reader compat.

·         You can now tie your Microsoft account to digital licenses in the event you need to install Windows after changing major hardware components (motherboard in particular).

·         Windows 10 Mobile devices with Near Field Communication (NFC) chips can support wireless payments.


Which Win10 mobile device are you using, Joseph?
 

·         Due to change in how toasts are displayed, third-party screen readers will not be able to announce toasts automatically


If I'm not mistaken, this is a significant regression?
 

(only Narrator does at this time). This problem was reported to Microsoft.


What's timelin for resolution?
 

·         For Insiders: Narrator will no longer boost speaking rate in specific situations.


Which situations was this occuring in?
 

·         A new command (Windows+F


Does this support a11y feedback?
 

) has been added to launch Feedback Hub (a replacement for Windows Feedback and Insider Hub apps).

·         Expected release date of Version 1607 is end of July (around the 29th).


What's the source (citation) for this date?

 

Note that the above update is for those using stable Windows 10 build (10586/Version 1511). Until it comes out, the main avenue for discussing technical matters related to Redstone is Insiders subgroup, with Redstone discussions on the parent list being aimed at preparing people for this upgrade and for Insiders to give you their thoughts so they can help you with the new stable version once released. The next report on Redstone happenings will be sent out in about two weeks’ time.

 

Cheers,

Joseph


 

Hi,

 

·         Installation tool: yes, usable.

·         Release date: various Microsoft documents, including a document sent out to hardware partners.

·         Feedback Hub: yes, accessibility feedback are accepted.

·         Toasts: It’s a combination of UIA event not firing and under the hood changes to how Action Center displays notifications. I’ve reported this to Microsoft and have done some investigations with NV Access staff.

·         Narrator speaking rate: noticeable if you switch to mobile voices in the past.

·         Edge: Suffice to say that Narrator and NVDA (at least these two) will let you use Edge (still experimental support). A noteworthy addition is ability to read PDF’s with Edge with NVDA (and/or Narrator)) and will be part of NVDA 2016.3 (August).

 

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io [mailto:win10@win10.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kevin Chao
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2016 7:31 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] Windows 10 Anniversary Update preparations: latest happenings from build labs to anticipations #Redstone #WinTen1607 #a11Y

 

 

On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 7:09 PM Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi everyone,

 

Some latest updates on Windows 10 Version 1607 (Anniversary Update) happenings:

 

·         Free upgrade offer will indeed expire on July 29, 2016 except for specific audiences (in particular, those using assistive technologies).

 

How does Microsoft know if a user is using assistiv technology? Is it being being programmatically determined via an UIA (accessibility API) flag? If so, this may be a disability-privacy-disclosure concern.

 

·         A new tool is being introduced to do a complete clean install of Windows 10 that wipes OEM software.

 

What's the a11y-ux of this tool? i.e. is it fully screen reader accessible?

 

·         Latest Insider build is in 1437x range (as of June 25, 2016), which includes fixes for feedback provided by Insiders during the last bug bash (a few days ago).

 

Are there fixes for Edge accessibility? It's a major painpoint in WIn10 screen reader compat.

 

·         You can now tie your Microsoft account to digital licenses in the event you need to install Windows after changing major hardware components (motherboard in particular).

·         Windows 10 Mobile devices with Near Field Communication (NFC) chips can support wireless payments.

 

Which Win10 mobile device are you using, Joseph?

 

·         Due to change in how toasts are displayed, third-party screen readers will not be able to announce toasts automatically

 

If I'm not mistaken, this is a significant regression?

 

(only Narrator does at this time). This problem was reported to Microsoft.

 

What's timelin for resolution?

 

·         For Insiders: Narrator will no longer boost speaking rate in specific situations.

 

Which situations was this occuring in?

 

·         A new command (Windows+F

 

Does this support a11y feedback?

 

) has been added to launch Feedback Hub (a replacement for Windows Feedback and Insider Hub apps).

·         Expected release date of Version 1607 is end of July (around the 29th).

 

What's the source (citation) for this date?

 

 

Note that the above update is for those using stable Windows 10 build (10586/Version 1511). Until it comes out, the main avenue for discussing technical matters related to Redstone is Insiders subgroup, with Redstone discussions on the parent list being aimed at preparing people for this upgrade and for Insiders to give you their thoughts so they can help you with the new stable version once released. The next report on Redstone happenings will be sent out in about two weeks’ time.

 

Cheers,

Joseph


gary melconian <gmelconian619@...>
 

I have a question,  will we eventually be able to fill out pdfs with NVDA or narrator without having to  use adobe pdf pro. That’s  the only thing missing.

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io [mailto:win10@win10.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2016 7:48 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] Windows 10 Anniversary Update preparations: latest happenings from build labs to anticipations #Redstone #WinTen1607 #a11Y

 

Hi,

 

·         Installation tool: yes, usable.

·         Release date: various Microsoft documents, including a document sent out to hardware partners.

·         Feedback Hub: yes, accessibility feedback are accepted.

·         Toasts: It’s a combination of UIA event not firing and under the hood changes to how Action Center displays notifications. I’ve reported this to Microsoft and have done some investigations with NV Access staff.

·         Narrator speaking rate: noticeable if you switch to mobile voices in the past.

·         Edge: Suffice to say that Narrator and NVDA (at least these two) will let you use Edge (still experimental support). A noteworthy addition is ability to read PDF’s with Edge with NVDA (and/or Narrator)) and will be part of NVDA 2016.3 (August).

 

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io [mailto:win10@win10.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kevin Chao
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2016 7:31 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] Windows 10 Anniversary Update preparations: latest happenings from build labs to anticipations #Redstone #WinTen1607 #a11Y

 

 

On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 7:09 PM Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi everyone,

 

Some latest updates on Windows 10 Version 1607 (Anniversary Update) happenings:

 

·         Free upgrade offer will indeed expire on July 29, 2016 except for specific audiences (in particular, those using assistive technologies).

 

How does Microsoft know if a user is using assistiv technology? Is it being being programmatically determined via an UIA (accessibility API) flag? If so, this may be a disability-privacy-disclosure concern.

 

·         A new tool is being introduced to do a complete clean install of Windows 10 that wipes OEM software.

 

What's the a11y-ux of this tool? i.e. is it fully screen reader accessible?

 

·         Latest Insider build is in 1437x range (as of June 25, 2016), which includes fixes for feedback provided by Insiders during the last bug bash (a few days ago).

 

Are there fixes for Edge accessibility? It's a major painpoint in WIn10 screen reader compat.

 

·         You can now tie your Microsoft account to digital licenses in the event you need to install Windows after changing major hardware components (motherboard in particular).

·         Windows 10 Mobile devices with Near Field Communication (NFC) chips can support wireless payments.

 

Which Win10 mobile device are you using, Joseph?

 

·         Due to change in how toasts are displayed, third-party screen readers will not be able to announce toasts automatically

 

If I'm not mistaken, this is a significant regression?

 

(only Narrator does at this time). This problem was reported to Microsoft.

 

What's timelin for resolution?

 

·         For Insiders: Narrator will no longer boost speaking rate in specific situations.

 

Which situations was this occuring in?

 

·         A new command (Windows+F

 

Does this support a11y feedback?

 

) has been added to launch Feedback Hub (a replacement for Windows Feedback and Insider Hub apps).

·         Expected release date of Version 1607 is end of July (around the 29th).

 

What's the source (citation) for this date?

 

 

Note that the above update is for those using stable Windows 10 build (10586/Version 1511). Until it comes out, the main avenue for discussing technical matters related to Redstone is Insiders subgroup, with Redstone discussions on the parent list being aimed at preparing people for this upgrade and for Insiders to give you their thoughts so they can help you with the new stable version once released. The next report on Redstone happenings will be sent out in about two weeks’ time.

 

Cheers,

Joseph


 

Hi,

Not yet unless Edge/PDF combo will let you do that (highly unlikely).

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io [mailto:win10@win10.groups.io] On Behalf Of g melconian
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2016 8:00 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] Windows 10 Anniversary Update preparations: latest happenings from build labs to anticipations #Redstone #WinTen1607 #a11Y

 

I have a question,  will we eventually be able to fill out pdfs with NVDA or narrator without having to  use adobe pdf pro. That’s  the only thing missing.

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io [mailto:win10@win10.groups.io] On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2016 7:48 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] Windows 10 Anniversary Update preparations: latest happenings from build labs to anticipations #Redstone #WinTen1607 #a11Y

 

Hi,

 

·         Installation tool: yes, usable.

·         Release date: various Microsoft documents, including a document sent out to hardware partners.

·         Feedback Hub: yes, accessibility feedback are accepted.

·         Toasts: It’s a combination of UIA event not firing and under the hood changes to how Action Center displays notifications. I’ve reported this to Microsoft and have done some investigations with NV Access staff.

·         Narrator speaking rate: noticeable if you switch to mobile voices in the past.

·         Edge: Suffice to say that Narrator and NVDA (at least these two) will let you use Edge (still experimental support). A noteworthy addition is ability to read PDF’s with Edge with NVDA (and/or Narrator)) and will be part of NVDA 2016.3 (August).

 

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io [mailto:win10@win10.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kevin Chao
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2016 7:31 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] Windows 10 Anniversary Update preparations: latest happenings from build labs to anticipations #Redstone #WinTen1607 #a11Y

 

 

On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 7:09 PM Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi everyone,

 

Some latest updates on Windows 10 Version 1607 (Anniversary Update) happenings:

 

·         Free upgrade offer will indeed expire on July 29, 2016 except for specific audiences (in particular, those using assistive technologies).

 

How does Microsoft know if a user is using assistiv technology? Is it being being programmatically determined via an UIA (accessibility API) flag? If so, this may be a disability-privacy-disclosure concern.

 

·         A new tool is being introduced to do a complete clean install of Windows 10 that wipes OEM software.

 

What's the a11y-ux of this tool? i.e. is it fully screen reader accessible?

 

·         Latest Insider build is in 1437x range (as of June 25, 2016), which includes fixes for feedback provided by Insiders during the last bug bash (a few days ago).

 

Are there fixes for Edge accessibility? It's a major painpoint in WIn10 screen reader compat.

 

·         You can now tie your Microsoft account to digital licenses in the event you need to install Windows after changing major hardware components (motherboard in particular).

·         Windows 10 Mobile devices with Near Field Communication (NFC) chips can support wireless payments.

 

Which Win10 mobile device are you using, Joseph?

 

·         Due to change in how toasts are displayed, third-party screen readers will not be able to announce toasts automatically

 

If I'm not mistaken, this is a significant regression?

 

(only Narrator does at this time). This problem was reported to Microsoft.

 

What's timelin for resolution?

 

·         For Insiders: Narrator will no longer boost speaking rate in specific situations.

 

Which situations was this occuring in?

 

·         A new command (Windows+F

 

Does this support a11y feedback?

 

) has been added to launch Feedback Hub (a replacement for Windows Feedback and Insider Hub apps).

·         Expected release date of Version 1607 is end of July (around the 29th).

 

What's the source (citation) for this date?

 

 

Note that the above update is for those using stable Windows 10 build (10586/Version 1511). Until it comes out, the main avenue for discussing technical matters related to Redstone is Insiders subgroup, with Redstone discussions on the parent list being aimed at preparing people for this upgrade and for Insiders to give you their thoughts so they can help you with the new stable version once released. The next report on Redstone happenings will be sent out in about two weeks’ time.

 

Cheers,

Joseph


Kevin Chao
 



On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 7:48 PM Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi,

 

·         Installation tool: yes, usable.

·         Release date: various Microsoft documents, including a document sent out to hardware partners.


Are you a hardware partner?
 

·         Feedback Hub: yes, accessibility feedback are accepted.

·         Toasts: It’s a combination of UIA event not firing and under the hood changes to how Action Center displays notifications. I’ve reported this to Microsoft and have done some investigations with NV Access staff.


Do they not have automated test to prevent regressions?


·         Narrator speaking rate: noticeable if you switch to mobile voices in the past.


I've not heard thes mobile voices. How to switch to the mobile TTS? Which Win10 mobile device are you using, Joseph? 
 

·         Edge: Suffice to say that Narrator and NVDA (at least these two) will let you use Edge (still experimental support).


I'm aware of experimental, but asking for robust and usable a11y-ux with screen readers. Third-party cannot do much due to architecture and framework a11y not being present in Edge.
 

A noteworthy addition is ability to read PDF’s with Edge with NVDA (and/or Narrator)) and will be part of NVDA 2016.3 (August).


DOes this support structured / tagged PDFs (e.g. heading, list, table, etc.) 

 

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io [mailto:win10@win10.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kevin Chao
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2016 7:31 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] Windows 10 Anniversary Update preparations: latest happenings from build labs to anticipations #Redstone #WinTen1607 #a11Y

 

 

On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 7:09 PM Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi everyone,

 

Some latest updates on Windows 10 Version 1607 (Anniversary Update) happenings:

 

·         Free upgrade offer will indeed expire on July 29, 2016 except for specific audiences (in particular, those using assistive technologies).

 

How does Microsoft know if a user is using assistiv technology? Is it being being programmatically determined via an UIA (accessibility API) flag? If so, this may be a disability-privacy-disclosure concern.

 

·         A new tool is being introduced to do a complete clean install of Windows 10 that wipes OEM software.

 

What's the a11y-ux of this tool? i.e. is it fully screen reader accessible?

 

·         Latest Insider build is in 1437x range (as of June 25, 2016), which includes fixes for feedback provided by Insiders during the last bug bash (a few days ago).

 

Are there fixes for Edge accessibility? It's a major painpoint in WIn10 screen reader compat.

 

·         You can now tie your Microsoft account to digital licenses in the event you need to install Windows after changing major hardware components (motherboard in particular).

·         Windows 10 Mobile devices with Near Field Communication (NFC) chips can support wireless payments.

 

Which Win10 mobile device are you using, Joseph?

 

·         Due to change in how toasts are displayed, third-party screen readers will not be able to announce toasts automatically

 

If I'm not mistaken, this is a significant regression?

 

(only Narrator does at this time). This problem was reported to Microsoft.

 

What's timelin for resolution?

 

·         For Insiders: Narrator will no longer boost speaking rate in specific situations.

 

Which situations was this occuring in?

 

·         A new command (Windows+F

 

Does this support a11y feedback?

 

) has been added to launch Feedback Hub (a replacement for Windows Feedback and Insider Hub apps).

·         Expected release date of Version 1607 is end of July (around the 29th).

 

What's the source (citation) for this date?

 

 

Note that the above update is for those using stable Windows 10 build (10586/Version 1511). Until it comes out, the main avenue for discussing technical matters related to Redstone is Insiders subgroup, with Redstone discussions on the parent list being aimed at preparing people for this upgrade and for Insiders to give you their thoughts so they can help you with the new stable version once released. The next report on Redstone happenings will be sent out in about two weeks’ time.

 

Cheers,

Joseph


 

Hi,

 

·         Edge/PDF: Last time I checked, NVDA at least recognizes links.

·         MS documents: No, I’m not a hardware partner, but I do keep an eye on publications from sources such as ZD Net, Paul Thurrott and others who posts links to such documents.

·         Windows 10 Mobile: No, I don’t use Lumias at all. I plan to not migrate to W10M until Microsoft says third-party screen readers can exercise full rights of screen readers (which will not happen), but I might use it to test Insider builds with Narrator.

·         Mobile voices: Start Narrator in Version 1607, select voices and you can select the voice you want.

·         Toasts and regressions: Microsoft says builds are subject to automated tests. I’m not sure if it covers Narrator/UIA combinations. Just because tests succeed does not mean bugs are squashed – this is the nature of continuous delivery, with Insiders asked to provide feedback on builds (Feedback Hub is the preferred channel, and twice I talked to an actual MS engineer responsible for user interface via Twitter regarding some issues with quick actions and Feedback Hub crashing).

 

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io [mailto:win10@win10.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kevin Chao
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2016 8:15 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] Windows 10 Anniversary Update preparations: latest happenings from build labs to anticipations #Redstone #WinTen1607 #a11Y

 

 

On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 7:48 PM Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi,

 

·         Installation tool: yes, usable.

·         Release date: various Microsoft documents, including a document sent out to hardware partners.

 

Are you a hardware partner?

 

·         Feedback Hub: yes, accessibility feedback are accepted.

·         Toasts: It’s a combination of UIA event not firing and under the hood changes to how Action Center displays notifications. I’ve reported this to Microsoft and have done some investigations with NV Access staff.

 

Do they not have automated test to prevent regressions?

 

 

·         Narrator speaking rate: noticeable if you switch to mobile voices in the past.

 

I've not heard thes mobile voices. How to switch to the mobile TTS? Which Win10 mobile device are you using, Joseph? 

 

·         Edge: Suffice to say that Narrator and NVDA (at least these two) will let you use Edge (still experimental support).

 

I'm aware of experimental, but asking for robust and usable a11y-ux with screen readers. Third-party cannot do much due to architecture and framework a11y not being present in Edge.

 

A noteworthy addition is ability to read PDF’s with Edge with NVDA (and/or Narrator)) and will be part of NVDA 2016.3 (August).

 

DOes this support structured / tagged PDFs (e.g. heading, list, table, etc.) 

 

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io [mailto:win10@win10.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kevin Chao
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2016 7:31 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] Windows 10 Anniversary Update preparations: latest happenings from build labs to anticipations #Redstone #WinTen1607 #a11Y

 

 

On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 7:09 PM Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi everyone,

 

Some latest updates on Windows 10 Version 1607 (Anniversary Update) happenings:

 

·         Free upgrade offer will indeed expire on July 29, 2016 except for specific audiences (in particular, those using assistive technologies).

 

How does Microsoft know if a user is using assistiv technology? Is it being being programmatically determined via an UIA (accessibility API) flag? If so, this may be a disability-privacy-disclosure concern.

 

·         A new tool is being introduced to do a complete clean install of Windows 10 that wipes OEM software.

 

What's the a11y-ux of this tool? i.e. is it fully screen reader accessible?

 

·         Latest Insider build is in 1437x range (as of June 25, 2016), which includes fixes for feedback provided by Insiders during the last bug bash (a few days ago).

 

Are there fixes for Edge accessibility? It's a major painpoint in WIn10 screen reader compat.

 

·         You can now tie your Microsoft account to digital licenses in the event you need to install Windows after changing major hardware components (motherboard in particular).

·         Windows 10 Mobile devices with Near Field Communication (NFC) chips can support wireless payments.

 

Which Win10 mobile device are you using, Joseph?

 

·         Due to change in how toasts are displayed, third-party screen readers will not be able to announce toasts automatically

 

If I'm not mistaken, this is a significant regression?

 

(only Narrator does at this time). This problem was reported to Microsoft.

 

What's timelin for resolution?

 

·         For Insiders: Narrator will no longer boost speaking rate in specific situations.

 

Which situations was this occuring in?

 

·         A new command (Windows+F

 

Does this support a11y feedback?

 

) has been added to launch Feedback Hub (a replacement for Windows Feedback and Insider Hub apps).

·         Expected release date of Version 1607 is end of July (around the 29th).

 

What's the source (citation) for this date?

 

 

Note that the above update is for those using stable Windows 10 build (10586/Version 1511). Until it comes out, the main avenue for discussing technical matters related to Redstone is Insiders subgroup, with Redstone discussions on the parent list being aimed at preparing people for this upgrade and for Insiders to give you their thoughts so they can help you with the new stable version once released. The next report on Redstone happenings will be sent out in about two weeks’ time.

 

Cheers,

Joseph


Kevin Chao
 



On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 8:30 PM Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi,

 

·         Edge/PDF: Last time I checked, NVDA at least recognizes links.


What about structurial tags (e.g. headings, list, table)? If not, this was one of the a11y-wins of Windows + Adobe Reader + NVDA; non-Windows a11y don't fully support tagged PDFs.
 

·         MS documents: No, I’m not a hardware partner, but I do keep an eye on publications from sources such as ZD Net, Paul Thurrott and others who posts links to such documents.

·         Windows 10 Mobile: No, I don’t use Lumias at all.


It's only ~1% market-share and heard that at the Microsoft developer conference: none of the staff had W10M, but were using Android and iOS.
 

I plan to not migrate to W10M until Microsoft says third-party screen readers can exercise full rights of screen readers (which will not happen),


It'd be great if NVDA were available for W10M.
 

but I might use it to test Insider builds with Narrator.

·         Mobile voices: Start Narrator in Version 1607, select voices and you can select the voice you want.


Oh, mobile voices are only available in insider builds? i.e. not stable-prod?
 

·         Toasts and regressions: Microsoft says builds are subject to automated tests. I’m not sure if it covers Narrator/UIA combinations. Just because tests succeed does not mean bugs are squashed – this is the nature of continuous delivery, with Insiders asked to provide feedback on builds (Feedback Hub is the preferred channel, and twice I talked to an actual MS engineer responsible for user interface via Twitter regarding some issues with quick actions and Feedback Hub crashing).


What was the result of these 2 convos? i.e. were the crashes fixed? 

 

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io [mailto:win10@win10.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kevin Chao
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2016 8:15 PM


To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] Windows 10 Anniversary Update preparations: latest happenings from build labs to anticipations #Redstone #WinTen1607 #a11Y

 

 

On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 7:48 PM Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi,

 

·         Installation tool: yes, usable.

·         Release date: various Microsoft documents, including a document sent out to hardware partners.

 

Are you a hardware partner?

 

·         Feedback Hub: yes, accessibility feedback are accepted.

·         Toasts: It’s a combination of UIA event not firing and under the hood changes to how Action Center displays notifications. I’ve reported this to Microsoft and have done some investigations with NV Access staff.

 

Do they not have automated test to prevent regressions?

 

 

·         Narrator speaking rate: noticeable if you switch to mobile voices in the past.

 

I've not heard thes mobile voices. How to switch to the mobile TTS? Which Win10 mobile device are you using, Joseph? 

 

·         Edge: Suffice to say that Narrator and NVDA (at least these two) will let you use Edge (still experimental support).

 

I'm aware of experimental, but asking for robust and usable a11y-ux with screen readers. Third-party cannot do much due to architecture and framework a11y not being present in Edge.

 

A noteworthy addition is ability to read PDF’s with Edge with NVDA (and/or Narrator)) and will be part of NVDA 2016.3 (August).

 

DOes this support structured / tagged PDFs (e.g. heading, list, table, etc.) 

 

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io [mailto:win10@win10.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kevin Chao
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2016 7:31 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] Windows 10 Anniversary Update preparations: latest happenings from build labs to anticipations #Redstone #WinTen1607 #a11Y

 

 

On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 7:09 PM Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi everyone,

 

Some latest updates on Windows 10 Version 1607 (Anniversary Update) happenings:

 

·         Free upgrade offer will indeed expire on July 29, 2016 except for specific audiences (in particular, those using assistive technologies).

 

How does Microsoft know if a user is using assistiv technology? Is it being being programmatically determined via an UIA (accessibility API) flag? If so, this may be a disability-privacy-disclosure concern.

 

·         A new tool is being introduced to do a complete clean install of Windows 10 that wipes OEM software.

 

What's the a11y-ux of this tool? i.e. is it fully screen reader accessible?

 

·         Latest Insider build is in 1437x range (as of June 25, 2016), which includes fixes for feedback provided by Insiders during the last bug bash (a few days ago).

 

Are there fixes for Edge accessibility? It's a major painpoint in WIn10 screen reader compat.

 

·         You can now tie your Microsoft account to digital licenses in the event you need to install Windows after changing major hardware components (motherboard in particular).

·         Windows 10 Mobile devices with Near Field Communication (NFC) chips can support wireless payments.

 

Which Win10 mobile device are you using, Joseph?

 

·         Due to change in how toasts are displayed, third-party screen readers will not be able to announce toasts automatically

 

If I'm not mistaken, this is a significant regression?

 

(only Narrator does at this time). This problem was reported to Microsoft.

 

What's timelin for resolution?

 

·         For Insiders: Narrator will no longer boost speaking rate in specific situations.

 

Which situations was this occuring in?

 

·         A new command (Windows+F

 

Does this support a11y feedback?

 

) has been added to launch Feedback Hub (a replacement for Windows Feedback and Insider Hub apps).

·         Expected release date of Version 1607 is end of July (around the 29th).

 

What's the source (citation) for this date?

 

 

Note that the above update is for those using stable Windows 10 build (10586/Version 1511). Until it comes out, the main avenue for discussing technical matters related to Redstone is Insiders subgroup, with Redstone discussions on the parent list being aimed at preparing people for this upgrade and for Insiders to give you their thoughts so they can help you with the new stable version once released. The next report on Redstone happenings will be sent out in about two weeks’ time.

 

Cheers,

Joseph


Roger Stewart
 

This doesn't apply to me as I've already been upgraded to Win 10, but I'm very curious as to how Microsoft can tell if you are using assistive technology?  In particular nvda with Win 7?  I can see if it shows in accessibility, but nvda won't show up there unless you have Win 8 or higher. So if I hadn't upgraded already and I wanted to wait until a later date after end of July, how could this be done?  Just curious.

Thanks.

Roger






On 6/25/2016 9:08 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi everyone,

 

Some latest updates on Windows 10 Version 1607 (Anniversary Update) happenings:

 

·         Free upgrade offer will indeed expire on July 29, 2016 except for specific audiences (in particular, those using assistive technologies).

·         A new tool is being introduced to do a complete clean install of Windows 10 that wipes OEM software.

·         Latest Insider build is in 1437x range (as of June 25, 2016), which includes fixes for feedback provided by Insiders during the last bug bash (a few days ago).

·         You can now tie your Microsoft account to digital licenses in the event you need to install Windows after changing major hardware components (motherboard in particular).

·         Windows 10 Mobile devices with Near Field Communication (NFC) chips can support wireless payments.

·         Due to change in how toasts are displayed, third-party screen readers will not be able to announce toasts automatically (only Narrator does at this time). This problem was reported to Microsoft.

·         For Insiders: Narrator will no longer boost speaking rate in specific situations.

·         A new command (Windows+F) has been added to launch Feedback Hub (a replacement for Windows Feedback and Insider Hub apps).

·         Expected release date of Version 1607 is end of July (around the 29th).

 

Note that the above update is for those using stable Windows 10 build (10586/Version 1511). Until it comes out, the main avenue for discussing technical matters related to Redstone is Insiders subgroup, with Redstone discussions on the parent list being aimed at preparing people for this upgrade and for Insiders to give you their thoughts so they can help you with the new stable version once released. The next report on Redstone happenings will be sent out in about two weeks’ time.

 

Cheers,

Joseph



Roger Stewart
 

Oops!  What I meant to say is that nvda won't show up in the Ease Of Access Center in Win 7. 

Roger








On 6/25/2016 10:43 PM, Roger Stewart wrote:
This doesn't apply to me as I've already been upgraded to Win 10, but I'm very curious as to how Microsoft can tell if you are using assistive technology?  In particular nvda with Win 7?  I can see if it shows in accessibility, but nvda won't show up there unless you have Win 8 or higher. So if I hadn't upgraded already and I wanted to wait until a later date after end of July, how could this be done?  Just curious.

Thanks.

Roger






On 6/25/2016 9:08 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi everyone,

 

Some latest updates on Windows 10 Version 1607 (Anniversary Update) happenings:

 

·         Free upgrade offer will indeed expire on July 29, 2016 except for specific audiences (in particular, those using assistive technologies).

·         A new tool is being introduced to do a complete clean install of Windows 10 that wipes OEM software.

·         Latest Insider build is in 1437x range (as of June 25, 2016), which includes fixes for feedback provided by Insiders during the last bug bash (a few days ago).

·         You can now tie your Microsoft account to digital licenses in the event you need to install Windows after changing major hardware components (motherboard in particular).

·         Windows 10 Mobile devices with Near Field Communication (NFC) chips can support wireless payments.

·         Due to change in how toasts are displayed, third-party screen readers will not be able to announce toasts automatically (only Narrator does at this time). This problem was reported to Microsoft.

·         For Insiders: Narrator will no longer boost speaking rate in specific situations.

·         A new command (Windows+F) has been added to launch Feedback Hub (a replacement for Windows Feedback and Insider Hub apps).

·         Expected release date of Version 1607 is end of July (around the 29th).

 

Note that the above update is for those using stable Windows 10 build (10586/Version 1511). Until it comes out, the main avenue for discussing technical matters related to Redstone is Insiders subgroup, with Redstone discussions on the parent list being aimed at preparing people for this upgrade and for Insiders to give you their thoughts so they can help you with the new stable version once released. The next report on Redstone happenings will be sent out in about two weeks’ time.

 

Cheers,

Joseph




 

Hi,

 

·         Twitter conversations: Quick action issue was fixed, not yet for Feedback Hub crash problem.

·         Mobile voices: yes, Insider builds for now.

·          Tagged PDF’s: Will need to perform further tests using a PDF that does contain tables and such.

·         W10M and screen readers: this is because you cannot run desktop apps on mobile phones. There is a project called Desktop App Converter (Centennial) that’ll convert classic programs to universal apps (Microsoft did showcase some of them on Store the other day, including Word Pad and Character Map). In order for screen readers to support mobile phones, they need to be compiled for ARM architecture (Freedom Scientific tried it a decade ago), must rely on API’s provided by UWP (UIA) and should have ability to hook into events sent by apps (universal apps are contained inside a “bubble”, so unless given permission, they cannot access hardware and app information outside of their sandbox).

 

Cheers,

Joseph

 

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io [mailto:win10@win10.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kevin Chao
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2016 8:42 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] Windows 10 Anniversary Update preparations: latest happenings from build labs to anticipations #Redstone #WinTen1607 #a11Y

 

 

On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 8:30 PM Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi,

 

·         Edge/PDF: Last time I checked, NVDA at least recognizes links.

 

What about structurial tags (e.g. headings, list, table)? If not, this was one of the a11y-wins of Windows + Adobe Reader + NVDA; non-Windows a11y don't fully support tagged PDFs.

 

·         MS documents: No, I’m not a hardware partner, but I do keep an eye on publications from sources such as ZD Net, Paul Thurrott and others who posts links to such documents.

·         Windows 10 Mobile: No, I don’t use Lumias at all.

 

It's only ~1% market-share and heard that at the Microsoft developer conference: none of the staff had W10M, but were using Android and iOS.

 

I plan to not migrate to W10M until Microsoft says third-party screen readers can exercise full rights of screen readers (which will not happen),

 

It'd be great if NVDA were available for W10M.

 

but I might use it to test Insider builds with Narrator.

·         Mobile voices: Start Narrator in Version 1607, select voices and you can select the voice you want.

 

Oh, mobile voices are only available in insider builds? i.e. not stable-prod?

 

·         Toasts and regressions: Microsoft says builds are subject to automated tests. I’m not sure if it covers Narrator/UIA combinations. Just because tests succeed does not mean bugs are squashed – this is the nature of continuous delivery, with Insiders asked to provide feedback on builds (Feedback Hub is the preferred channel, and twice I talked to an actual MS engineer responsible for user interface via Twitter regarding some issues with quick actions and Feedback Hub crashing).

 

What was the result of these 2 convos? i.e. were the crashes fixed? 

 

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io [mailto:win10@win10.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kevin Chao
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2016 8:15 PM


To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] Windows 10 Anniversary Update preparations: latest happenings from build labs to anticipations #Redstone #WinTen1607 #a11Y

 

 

On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 7:48 PM Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi,

 

·         Installation tool: yes, usable.

·         Release date: various Microsoft documents, including a document sent out to hardware partners.

 

Are you a hardware partner?

 

·         Feedback Hub: yes, accessibility feedback are accepted.

·         Toasts: It’s a combination of UIA event not firing and under the hood changes to how Action Center displays notifications. I’ve reported this to Microsoft and have done some investigations with NV Access staff.

 

Do they not have automated test to prevent regressions?

 

 

·         Narrator speaking rate: noticeable if you switch to mobile voices in the past.

 

I've not heard thes mobile voices. How to switch to the mobile TTS? Which Win10 mobile device are you using, Joseph? 

 

·         Edge: Suffice to say that Narrator and NVDA (at least these two) will let you use Edge (still experimental support).

 

I'm aware of experimental, but asking for robust and usable a11y-ux with screen readers. Third-party cannot do much due to architecture and framework a11y not being present in Edge.

 

A noteworthy addition is ability to read PDF’s with Edge with NVDA (and/or Narrator)) and will be part of NVDA 2016.3 (August).

 

DOes this support structured / tagged PDFs (e.g. heading, list, table, etc.) 

 

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io [mailto:win10@win10.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kevin Chao
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2016 7:31 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] Windows 10 Anniversary Update preparations: latest happenings from build labs to anticipations #Redstone #WinTen1607 #a11Y

 

 

On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 7:09 PM Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi everyone,

 

Some latest updates on Windows 10 Version 1607 (Anniversary Update) happenings:

 

·         Free upgrade offer will indeed expire on July 29, 2016 except for specific audiences (in particular, those using assistive technologies).

 

How does Microsoft know if a user is using assistiv technology? Is it being being programmatically determined via an UIA (accessibility API) flag? If so, this may be a disability-privacy-disclosure concern.

 

·         A new tool is being introduced to do a complete clean install of Windows 10 that wipes OEM software.

 

What's the a11y-ux of this tool? i.e. is it fully screen reader accessible?

 

·         Latest Insider build is in 1437x range (as of June 25, 2016), which includes fixes for feedback provided by Insiders during the last bug bash (a few days ago).

 

Are there fixes for Edge accessibility? It's a major painpoint in WIn10 screen reader compat.

 

·         You can now tie your Microsoft account to digital licenses in the event you need to install Windows after changing major hardware components (motherboard in particular).

·         Windows 10 Mobile devices with Near Field Communication (NFC) chips can support wireless payments.

 

Which Win10 mobile device are you using, Joseph?

 

·         Due to change in how toasts are displayed, third-party screen readers will not be able to announce toasts automatically

 

If I'm not mistaken, this is a significant regression?

 

(only Narrator does at this time). This problem was reported to Microsoft.

 

What's timelin for resolution?

 

·         For Insiders: Narrator will no longer boost speaking rate in specific situations.

 

Which situations was this occuring in?

 

·         A new command (Windows+F

 

Does this support a11y feedback?

 

) has been added to launch Feedback Hub (a replacement for Windows Feedback and Insider Hub apps).

·         Expected release date of Version 1607 is end of July (around the 29th).

 

What's the source (citation) for this date?

 

 

Note that the above update is for those using stable Windows 10 build (10586/Version 1511). Until it comes out, the main avenue for discussing technical matters related to Redstone is Insiders subgroup, with Redstone discussions on the parent list being aimed at preparing people for this upgrade and for Insiders to give you their thoughts so they can help you with the new stable version once released. The next report on Redstone happenings will be sent out in about two weeks’ time.

 

Cheers,

Joseph


Kevin Chao
 



On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 8:52 PM Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi,

 

·         Twitter conversations: Quick action issue was fixed, not yet for Feedback Hub crash problem.


When was crash reported? days, weeks, or months ago? IIUC, Feedback HUb crashes, so it's not possibel to provide feedback about the crash?
 

·         Mobile voices: yes, Insider builds for now.


Are there sample recordings of these voices that you can share?
 

·          Tagged PDF’s: Will need to perform further tests using a PDF that does contain tables and such.

·         W10M and screen readers: this is because you cannot run desktop apps on mobile phones.


Inverse of what Google announced at I/O 2016, where chromeOS M53 touch screen devices will be able to run the 2 million Android Play Store apps.
  

There is a project called Desktop App Converter (Centennial) that’ll convert classic programs to universal apps (Microsoft did showcase some of them on Store the other day, including Word Pad and Character Map). In order for screen readers to support mobile phones, they need to be compiled for ARM architecture (Freedom Scientific tried it a decade ago), must rely on API’s provided by UWP (UIA) and should have ability to hook into events sent by apps (universal apps are contained inside a “bubble”, so unless given permission, they cannot access hardware and app information outside of their sandbox).


I don't see the API's being opened any time soon, but also don't see VFO and NV Access jumping on it ASAP if it were technically possible.

 

Cheers,

Joseph

 

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io [mailto:win10@win10.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kevin Chao
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2016 8:42 PM


To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] Windows 10 Anniversary Update preparations: latest happenings from build labs to anticipations #Redstone #WinTen1607 #a11Y

 

 

On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 8:30 PM Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi,

 

·         Edge/PDF: Last time I checked, NVDA at least recognizes links.

 

What about structurial tags (e.g. headings, list, table)? If not, this was one of the a11y-wins of Windows + Adobe Reader + NVDA; non-Windows a11y don't fully support tagged PDFs.

 

·         MS documents: No, I’m not a hardware partner, but I do keep an eye on publications from sources such as ZD Net, Paul Thurrott and others who posts links to such documents.

·         Windows 10 Mobile: No, I don’t use Lumias at all.

 

It's only ~1% market-share and heard that at the Microsoft developer conference: none of the staff had W10M, but were using Android and iOS.

 

I plan to not migrate to W10M until Microsoft says third-party screen readers can exercise full rights of screen readers (which will not happen),

 

It'd be great if NVDA were available for W10M.

 

but I might use it to test Insider builds with Narrator.

·         Mobile voices: Start Narrator in Version 1607, select voices and you can select the voice you want.

 

Oh, mobile voices are only available in insider builds? i.e. not stable-prod?

 

·         Toasts and regressions: Microsoft says builds are subject to automated tests. I’m not sure if it covers Narrator/UIA combinations. Just because tests succeed does not mean bugs are squashed – this is the nature of continuous delivery, with Insiders asked to provide feedback on builds (Feedback Hub is the preferred channel, and twice I talked to an actual MS engineer responsible for user interface via Twitter regarding some issues with quick actions and Feedback Hub crashing).

 

What was the result of these 2 convos? i.e. were the crashes fixed? 

 

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io [mailto:win10@win10.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kevin Chao
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2016 8:15 PM


To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] Windows 10 Anniversary Update preparations: latest happenings from build labs to anticipations #Redstone #WinTen1607 #a11Y

 

 

On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 7:48 PM Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi,

 

·         Installation tool: yes, usable.

·         Release date: various Microsoft documents, including a document sent out to hardware partners.

 

Are you a hardware partner?

 

·         Feedback Hub: yes, accessibility feedback are accepted.

·         Toasts: It’s a combination of UIA event not firing and under the hood changes to how Action Center displays notifications. I’ve reported this to Microsoft and have done some investigations with NV Access staff.

 

Do they not have automated test to prevent regressions?

 

 

·         Narrator speaking rate: noticeable if you switch to mobile voices in the past.

 

I've not heard thes mobile voices. How to switch to the mobile TTS? Which Win10 mobile device are you using, Joseph? 

 

·         Edge: Suffice to say that Narrator and NVDA (at least these two) will let you use Edge (still experimental support).

 

I'm aware of experimental, but asking for robust and usable a11y-ux with screen readers. Third-party cannot do much due to architecture and framework a11y not being present in Edge.

 

A noteworthy addition is ability to read PDF’s with Edge with NVDA (and/or Narrator)) and will be part of NVDA 2016.3 (August).

 

DOes this support structured / tagged PDFs (e.g. heading, list, table, etc.) 

 

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io [mailto:win10@win10.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kevin Chao
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2016 7:31 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] Windows 10 Anniversary Update preparations: latest happenings from build labs to anticipations #Redstone #WinTen1607 #a11Y

 

 

On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 7:09 PM Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi everyone,

 

Some latest updates on Windows 10 Version 1607 (Anniversary Update) happenings:

 

·         Free upgrade offer will indeed expire on July 29, 2016 except for specific audiences (in particular, those using assistive technologies).

 

How does Microsoft know if a user is using assistiv technology? Is it being being programmatically determined via an UIA (accessibility API) flag? If so, this may be a disability-privacy-disclosure concern.

 

·         A new tool is being introduced to do a complete clean install of Windows 10 that wipes OEM software.

 

What's the a11y-ux of this tool? i.e. is it fully screen reader accessible?

 

·         Latest Insider build is in 1437x range (as of June 25, 2016), which includes fixes for feedback provided by Insiders during the last bug bash (a few days ago).

 

Are there fixes for Edge accessibility? It's a major painpoint in WIn10 screen reader compat.

 

·         You can now tie your Microsoft account to digital licenses in the event you need to install Windows after changing major hardware components (motherboard in particular).

·         Windows 10 Mobile devices with Near Field Communication (NFC) chips can support wireless payments.

 

Which Win10 mobile device are you using, Joseph?

 

·         Due to change in how toasts are displayed, third-party screen readers will not be able to announce toasts automatically

 

If I'm not mistaken, this is a significant regression?

 

(only Narrator does at this time). This problem was reported to Microsoft.

 

What's timelin for resolution?

 

·         For Insiders: Narrator will no longer boost speaking rate in specific situations.

 

Which situations was this occuring in?

 

·         A new command (Windows+F

 

Does this support a11y feedback?

 

) has been added to launch Feedback Hub (a replacement for Windows Feedback and Insider Hub apps).

·         Expected release date of Version 1607 is end of July (around the 29th).

 

What's the source (citation) for this date?

 

 

Note that the above update is for those using stable Windows 10 build (10586/Version 1511). Until it comes out, the main avenue for discussing technical matters related to Redstone is Insiders subgroup, with Redstone discussions on the parent list being aimed at preparing people for this upgrade and for Insiders to give you their thoughts so they can help you with the new stable version once released. The next report on Redstone happenings will be sent out in about two weeks’ time.

 

Cheers,

Joseph


 

Hi,

 

·         Feedback hub crash: reported about five days ago. You can submit feedback, but you’ll find that if you press Home/End and other commands from list of feedbacks, it’ll crash.

 

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io [mailto:win10@win10.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kevin Chao
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2016 9:07 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] Windows 10 Anniversary Update preparations: latest happenings from build labs to anticipations #Redstone #WinTen1607 #a11Y

 

 

On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 8:52 PM Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi,

 

·         Twitter conversations: Quick action issue was fixed, not yet for Feedback Hub crash problem.

 

When was crash reported? days, weeks, or months ago? IIUC, Feedback HUb crashes, so it's not possibel to provide feedback about the crash?

 

·         Mobile voices: yes, Insider builds for now.

 

Are there sample recordings of these voices that you can share?

 

·          Tagged PDF’s: Will need to perform further tests using a PDF that does contain tables and such.

·         W10M and screen readers: this is because you cannot run desktop apps on mobile phones.

 

Inverse of what Google announced at I/O 2016, where chromeOS M53 touch screen devices will be able to run the 2 million Android Play Store apps.

  

There is a project called Desktop App Converter (Centennial) that’ll convert classic programs to universal apps (Microsoft did showcase some of them on Store the other day, including Word Pad and Character Map). In order for screen readers to support mobile phones, they need to be compiled for ARM architecture (Freedom Scientific tried it a decade ago), must rely on API’s provided by UWP (UIA) and should have ability to hook into events sent by apps (universal apps are contained inside a “bubble”, so unless given permission, they cannot access hardware and app information outside of their sandbox).

 

I don't see the API's being opened any time soon, but also don't see VFO and NV Access jumping on it ASAP if it were technically possible.

 

Cheers,

Joseph

 

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io [mailto:win10@win10.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kevin Chao
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2016 8:42 PM


To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] Windows 10 Anniversary Update preparations: latest happenings from build labs to anticipations #Redstone #WinTen1607 #a11Y

 

 

On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 8:30 PM Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi,

 

·         Edge/PDF: Last time I checked, NVDA at least recognizes links.

 

What about structurial tags (e.g. headings, list, table)? If not, this was one of the a11y-wins of Windows + Adobe Reader + NVDA; non-Windows a11y don't fully support tagged PDFs.

 

·         MS documents: No, I’m not a hardware partner, but I do keep an eye on publications from sources such as ZD Net, Paul Thurrott and others who posts links to such documents.

·         Windows 10 Mobile: No, I don’t use Lumias at all.

 

It's only ~1% market-share and heard that at the Microsoft developer conference: none of the staff had W10M, but were using Android and iOS.

 

I plan to not migrate to W10M until Microsoft says third-party screen readers can exercise full rights of screen readers (which will not happen),

 

It'd be great if NVDA were available for W10M.

 

but I might use it to test Insider builds with Narrator.

·         Mobile voices: Start Narrator in Version 1607, select voices and you can select the voice you want.

 

Oh, mobile voices are only available in insider builds? i.e. not stable-prod?

 

·         Toasts and regressions: Microsoft says builds are subject to automated tests. I’m not sure if it covers Narrator/UIA combinations. Just because tests succeed does not mean bugs are squashed – this is the nature of continuous delivery, with Insiders asked to provide feedback on builds (Feedback Hub is the preferred channel, and twice I talked to an actual MS engineer responsible for user interface via Twitter regarding some issues with quick actions and Feedback Hub crashing).

 

What was the result of these 2 convos? i.e. were the crashes fixed? 

 

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io [mailto:win10@win10.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kevin Chao
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2016 8:15 PM


To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] Windows 10 Anniversary Update preparations: latest happenings from build labs to anticipations #Redstone #WinTen1607 #a11Y

 

 

On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 7:48 PM Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi,

 

·         Installation tool: yes, usable.

·         Release date: various Microsoft documents, including a document sent out to hardware partners.

 

Are you a hardware partner?

 

·         Feedback Hub: yes, accessibility feedback are accepted.

·         Toasts: It’s a combination of UIA event not firing and under the hood changes to how Action Center displays notifications. I’ve reported this to Microsoft and have done some investigations with NV Access staff.

 

Do they not have automated test to prevent regressions?

 

 

·         Narrator speaking rate: noticeable if you switch to mobile voices in the past.

 

I've not heard thes mobile voices. How to switch to the mobile TTS? Which Win10 mobile device are you using, Joseph? 

 

·         Edge: Suffice to say that Narrator and NVDA (at least these two) will let you use Edge (still experimental support).

 

I'm aware of experimental, but asking for robust and usable a11y-ux with screen readers. Third-party cannot do much due to architecture and framework a11y not being present in Edge.

 

A noteworthy addition is ability to read PDF’s with Edge with NVDA (and/or Narrator)) and will be part of NVDA 2016.3 (August).

 

DOes this support structured / tagged PDFs (e.g. heading, list, table, etc.) 

 

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io [mailto:win10@win10.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kevin Chao
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2016 7:31 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] Windows 10 Anniversary Update preparations: latest happenings from build labs to anticipations #Redstone #WinTen1607 #a11Y

 

 

On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 7:09 PM Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi everyone,

 

Some latest updates on Windows 10 Version 1607 (Anniversary Update) happenings:

 

·         Free upgrade offer will indeed expire on July 29, 2016 except for specific audiences (in particular, those using assistive technologies).

 

How does Microsoft know if a user is using assistiv technology? Is it being being programmatically determined via an UIA (accessibility API) flag? If so, this may be a disability-privacy-disclosure concern.

 

·         A new tool is being introduced to do a complete clean install of Windows 10 that wipes OEM software.

 

What's the a11y-ux of this tool? i.e. is it fully screen reader accessible?

 

·         Latest Insider build is in 1437x range (as of June 25, 2016), which includes fixes for feedback provided by Insiders during the last bug bash (a few days ago).

 

Are there fixes for Edge accessibility? It's a major painpoint in WIn10 screen reader compat.

 

·         You can now tie your Microsoft account to digital licenses in the event you need to install Windows after changing major hardware components (motherboard in particular).

·         Windows 10 Mobile devices with Near Field Communication (NFC) chips can support wireless payments.

 

Which Win10 mobile device are you using, Joseph?

 

·         Due to change in how toasts are displayed, third-party screen readers will not be able to announce toasts automatically

 

If I'm not mistaken, this is a significant regression?

 

(only Narrator does at this time). This problem was reported to Microsoft.

 

What's timelin for resolution?

 

·         For Insiders: Narrator will no longer boost speaking rate in specific situations.

 

Which situations was this occuring in?

 

·         A new command (Windows+F

 

Does this support a11y feedback?

 

) has been added to launch Feedback Hub (a replacement for Windows Feedback and Insider Hub apps).

·         Expected release date of Version 1607 is end of July (around the 29th).

 

What's the source (citation) for this date?

 

 

Note that the above update is for those using stable Windows 10 build (10586/Version 1511). Until it comes out, the main avenue for discussing technical matters related to Redstone is Insiders subgroup, with Redstone discussions on the parent list being aimed at preparing people for this upgrade and for Insiders to give you their thoughts so they can help you with the new stable version once released. The next report on Redstone happenings will be sent out in about two weeks’ time.

 

Cheers,

Joseph


Nick Dotson <nickdotson@...>
 

My bank and other sites have been able to know I'm a screen reader for a very long time--years...

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io [mailto:win10@win10.groups.io] On Behalf Of Roger Stewart
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2016 10:43 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] Windows 10 Anniversary Update preparations: latest happenings from build labs to anticipations #Redstone #WinTen1607 #a11Y

 

This doesn't apply to me as I've already been upgraded to Win 10, but I'm very curious as to how Microsoft can tell if you are using assistive technology?  In particular nvda with Win 7?  I can see if it shows in accessibility, but nvda won't show up there unless you have Win 8 or higher. So if I hadn't upgraded already and I wanted to wait until a later date after end of July, how could this be done?  Just curious.

Thanks.

Roger






On 6/25/2016 9:08 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi everyone,

 

Some latest updates on Windows 10 Version 1607 (Anniversary Update) happenings:

 

·         Free upgrade offer will indeed expire on July 29, 2016 except for specific audiences (in particular, those using assistive technologies).

·         A new tool is being introduced to do a complete clean install of Windows 10 that wipes OEM software.

·         Latest Insider build is in 1437x range (as of June 25, 2016), which includes fixes for feedback provided by Insiders during the last bug bash (a few days ago).

·         You can now tie your Microsoft account to digital licenses in the event you need to install Windows after changing major hardware components (motherboard in particular).

·         Windows 10 Mobile devices with Near Field Communication (NFC) chips can support wireless payments.

·         Due to change in how toasts are displayed, third-party screen readers will not be able to announce toasts automatically (only Narrator does at this time). This problem was reported to Microsoft.

·         For Insiders: Narrator will no longer boost speaking rate in specific situations.

·         A new command (Windows+F) has been added to launch Feedback Hub (a replacement for Windows Feedback and Insider Hub apps).

·         Expected release date of Version 1607 is end of July (around the 29th).

 

Note that the above update is for those using stable Windows 10 build (10586/Version 1511). Until it comes out, the main avenue for discussing technical matters related to Redstone is Insiders subgroup, with Redstone discussions on the parent list being aimed at preparing people for this upgrade and for Insiders to give you their thoughts so they can help you with the new stable version once released. The next report on Redstone happenings will be sent out in about two weeks’ time.

 

Cheers,

Joseph

 


Kevin Chao
 



On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 9:56 PM Nick Dotson <nickdotson@...> wrote:

My bank and other sites have been able to know I'm a screen reader for a very long time--years...


How's this possible? Do you tell them or do they know?

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io [mailto:win10@win10.groups.io] On Behalf Of Roger Stewart
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2016 10:43 PM


To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] Windows 10 Anniversary Update preparations: latest happenings from build labs to anticipations #Redstone #WinTen1607 #a11Y

 

This doesn't apply to me as I've already been upgraded to Win 10, but I'm very curious as to how Microsoft can tell if you are using assistive technology?  In particular nvda with Win 7?  I can see if it shows in accessibility, but nvda won't show up there unless you have Win 8 or higher. So if I hadn't upgraded already and I wanted to wait until a later date after end of July, how could this be done?  Just curious.



Thanks.

Roger






On 6/25/2016 9:08 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi everyone,

 

Some latest updates on Windows 10 Version 1607 (Anniversary Update) happenings:

 

·         Free upgrade offer will indeed expire on July 29, 2016 except for specific audiences (in particular, those using assistive technologies).

·         A new tool is being introduced to do a complete clean install of Windows 10 that wipes OEM software.

·         Latest Insider build is in 1437x range (as of June 25, 2016), which includes fixes for feedback provided by Insiders during the last bug bash (a few days ago).

·         You can now tie your Microsoft account to digital licenses in the event you need to install Windows after changing major hardware components (motherboard in particular).

·         Windows 10 Mobile devices with Near Field Communication (NFC) chips can support wireless payments.

·         Due to change in how toasts are displayed, third-party screen readers will not be able to announce toasts automatically (only Narrator does at this time). This problem was reported to Microsoft.

·         For Insiders: Narrator will no longer boost speaking rate in specific situations.

·         A new command (Windows+F) has been added to launch Feedback Hub (a replacement for Windows Feedback and Insider Hub apps).

·         Expected release date of Version 1607 is end of July (around the 29th).

 

Note that the above update is for those using stable Windows 10 build (10586/Version 1511). Until it comes out, the main avenue for discussing technical matters related to Redstone is Insiders subgroup, with Redstone discussions on the parent list being aimed at preparing people for this upgrade and for Insiders to give you their thoughts so they can help you with the new stable version once released. The next report on Redstone happenings will be sent out in about two weeks’ time.

 

Cheers,

Joseph

 


Isaac <bigikemusic@...>
 


so, how will microsoft be able to tell if I have accessability running to extend my free upgrade from an older computer after July 10

----- Original Message -----
From: Kevin Chao
Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2016 1:02 AM
Subject: Re: [win10] Windows 10 Anniversary Update preparations: latest happenings from build labs to anticipations #Redstone #WinTen1607 #a11Y



On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 9:56 PM Nick Dotson <nickdotson@...> wrote:

My bank and other sites have been able to know I'm a screen reader for a very long time--years...


How's this possible? Do you tell them or do they know?

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io [mailto:win10@win10.groups.io] On Behalf Of Roger Stewart
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2016 10:43 PM


To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] Windows 10 Anniversary Update preparations: latest happenings from build labs to anticipations #Redstone #WinTen1607 #a11Y

 

This doesn't apply to me as I've already been upgraded to Win 10, but I'm very curious as to how Microsoft can tell if you are using assistive technology?  In particular nvda with Win 7?  I can see if it shows in accessibility, but nvda won't show up there unless you have Win 8 or higher. So if I hadn't upgraded already and I wanted to wait until a later date after end of July, how could this be done?  Just curious.



Thanks.

Roger






On 6/25/2016 9:08 PM, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi everyone,

 

Some latest updates on Windows 10 Version 1607 (Anniversary Update) happenings:

 

·         Free upgrade offer will indeed expire on July 29, 2016 except for specific audiences (in particular, those using assistive technologies).

·         A new tool is being introduced to do a complete clean install of Windows 10 that wipes OEM software.

·         Latest Insider build is in 1437x range (as of June 25, 2016), which includes fixes for feedback provided by Insiders during the last bug bash (a few days ago).

·         You can now tie your Microsoft account to digital licenses in the event you need to install Windows after changing major hardware components (motherboard in particular).

·         Windows 10 Mobile devices with Near Field Communication (NFC) chips can support wireless payments.

·         Due to change in how toasts are displayed, third-party screen readers will not be able to announce toasts automatically (only Narrator does at this time). This problem was reported to Microsoft.

·         For Insiders: Narrator will no longer boost speaking rate in specific situations.

·         A new command (Windows+F) has been added to launch Feedback Hub (a replacement for Windows Feedback and Insider Hub apps).

·         Expected release date of Version 1607 is end of July (around the 29th).

 

Note that the above update is for those using stable Windows 10 build (10586/Version 1511). Until it comes out, the main avenue for discussing technical matters related to Redstone is Insiders subgroup, with Redstone discussions on the parent list being aimed at preparing people for this upgrade and for Insiders to give you their thoughts so they can help you with the new stable version once released. The next report on Redstone happenings will be sent out in about two weeks’ time.

 

Cheers,

Joseph

 


Michael Amaro
 

So how will all this affect those of us that use jaws?

From: Joseph Lee
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2016 8:52 PM
Subject: Re: [win10] Windows 10 Anniversary Update preparations: latest happenings from build labs to anticipations #Redstone #WinTen1607 #a11Y

Hi,

 

·         Twitter conversations: Quick action issue was fixed, not yet for Feedback Hub crash problem.

·         Mobile voices: yes, Insider builds for now.

·          Tagged PDF’s: Will need to perform further tests using a PDF that does contain tables and such.

·         W10M and screen readers: this is because you cannot run desktop apps on mobile phones. There is a project called Desktop App Converter (Centennial) that’ll convert classic programs to universal apps (Microsoft did showcase some of them on Store the other day, including Word Pad and Character Map). In order for screen readers to support mobile phones, they need to be compiled for ARM architecture (Freedom Scientific tried it a decade ago), must rely on API’s provided by UWP (UIA) and should have ability to hook into events sent by apps (universal apps are contained inside a “bubble”, so unless given permission, they cannot access hardware and app information outside of their sandbox).

 

Cheers,

Joseph

 

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io [mailto:win10@win10.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kevin Chao
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2016 8:42 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] Windows 10 Anniversary Update preparations: latest happenings from build labs to anticipations #Redstone #WinTen1607 #a11Y

 

 

On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 8:30 PM Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi,

 

·         Edge/PDF: Last time I checked, NVDA at least recognizes links.

 

What about structurial tags (e.g. headings, list, table)? If not, this was one of the a11y-wins of Windows + Adobe Reader + NVDA; non-Windows a11y don't fully support tagged PDFs.

 

·         MS documents: No, I’m not a hardware partner, but I do keep an eye on publications from sources such as ZD Net, Paul Thurrott and others who posts links to such documents.

·         Windows 10 Mobile: No, I don’t use Lumias at all.

 

It's only ~1% market-share and heard that at the Microsoft developer conference: none of the staff had W10M, but were using Android and iOS.

 

I plan to not migrate to W10M until Microsoft says third-party screen readers can exercise full rights of screen readers (which will not happen),

 

It'd be great if NVDA were available for W10M.

 

but I might use it to test Insider builds with Narrator.

·         Mobile voices: Start Narrator in Version 1607, select voices and you can select the voice you want.

 

Oh, mobile voices are only available in insider builds? i.e. not stable-prod?

 

·         Toasts and regressions: Microsoft says builds are subject to automated tests. I’m not sure if it covers Narrator/UIA combinations. Just because tests succeed does not mean bugs are squashed – this is the nature of continuous delivery, with Insiders asked to provide feedback on builds (Feedback Hub is the preferred channel, and twice I talked to an actual MS engineer responsible for user interface via Twitter regarding some issues with quick actions and Feedback Hub crashing).

 

What was the result of these 2 convos? i.e. were the crashes fixed? 

 

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io [mailto:win10@win10.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kevin Chao
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2016 8:15 PM


To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] Windows 10 Anniversary Update preparations: latest happenings from build labs to anticipations #Redstone #WinTen1607 #a11Y

 

 

On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 7:48 PM Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi,

 

·         Installation tool: yes, usable.

·         Release date: various Microsoft documents, including a document sent out to hardware partners.

 

Are you a hardware partner?

 

·         Feedback Hub: yes, accessibility feedback are accepted.

·         Toasts: It’s a combination of UIA event not firing and under the hood changes to how Action Center displays notifications. I’ve reported this to Microsoft and have done some investigations with NV Access staff.

 

Do they not have automated test to prevent regressions?

 

 

·         Narrator speaking rate: noticeable if you switch to mobile voices in the past.

 

I've not heard thes mobile voices. How to switch to the mobile TTS? Which Win10 mobile device are you using, Joseph? 

 

·         Edge: Suffice to say that Narrator and NVDA (at least these two) will let you use Edge (still experimental support).

 

I'm aware of experimental, but asking for robust and usable a11y-ux with screen readers. Third-party cannot do much due to architecture and framework a11y not being present in Edge.

 

A noteworthy addition is ability to read PDF’s with Edge with NVDA (and/or Narrator)) and will be part of NVDA 2016.3 (August).

 

DOes this support structured / tagged PDFs (e.g. heading, list, table, etc.) 

 

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io [mailto:win10@win10.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kevin Chao
Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2016 7:31 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] Windows 10 Anniversary Update preparations: latest happenings from build labs to anticipations #Redstone #WinTen1607 #a11Y

 

 

On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 7:09 PM Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@...> wrote:

Hi everyone,

 

Some latest updates on Windows 10 Version 1607 (Anniversary Update) happenings:

 

·         Free upgrade offer will indeed expire on July 29, 2016 except for specific audiences (in particular, those using assistive technologies).

 

How does Microsoft know if a user is using assistiv technology? Is it being being programmatically determined via an UIA (accessibility API) flag? If so, this may be a disability-privacy-disclosure concern.

 

·         A new tool is being introduced to do a complete clean install of Windows 10 that wipes OEM software.

 

What's the a11y-ux of this tool? i.e. is it fully screen reader accessible?

 

·         Latest Insider build is in 1437x range (as of June 25, 2016), which includes fixes for feedback provided by Insiders during the last bug bash (a few days ago).

 

Are there fixes for Edge accessibility? It's a major painpoint in WIn10 screen reader compat.

 

·         You can now tie your Microsoft account to digital licenses in the event you need to install Windows after changing major hardware components (motherboard in particular).

·         Windows 10 Mobile devices with Near Field Communication (NFC) chips can support wireless payments.

 

Which Win10 mobile device are you using, Joseph?

 

·         Due to change in how toasts are displayed, third-party screen readers will not be able to announce toasts automatically

 

If I'm not mistaken, this is a significant regression?

 

(only Narrator does at this time). This problem was reported to Microsoft.

 

What's timelin for resolution?

 

·         For Insiders: Narrator will no longer boost speaking rate in specific situations.

 

Which situations was this occuring in?

 

·         A new command (Windows+F

 

Does this support a11y feedback?

 

) has been added to launch Feedback Hub (a replacement for Windows Feedback and Insider Hub apps).

·         Expected release date of Version 1607 is end of July (around the 29th).

 

What's the source (citation) for this date?

 

 

Note that the above update is for those using stable Windows 10 build (10586/Version 1511). Until it comes out, the main avenue for discussing technical matters related to Redstone is Insiders subgroup, with Redstone discussions on the parent list being aimed at preparing people for this upgrade and for Insiders to give you their thoughts so they can help you with the new stable version once released. The next report on Redstone happenings will be sent out in about two weeks’ time.

 

Cheers,

Joseph