Request for community help: please help convince Earthlink to minimize Groups.IO domain blacklisting in the future #groupsio


 

Hi everyone,

 

Below is an email I received from Brian V regarding Earthlink issue a member of this forum cluster is having. Please follow what Brian is saying below and help convince Earthlink to minimize Groups.IO domain blacklisting in the future:

 

          Earthlink issues have been under hot and heavy discussion on the Group Manager's Forum in topic:  


Help: Earthlink now bouncing emails sent to *me* from Groups.io groups I own

 

           These are just that, Earthlink issues, and one of the most recent offerings pretty much sums it up:

 

Tell them to visit the link below and follow directions found there. The IP address for Groups.io mail server is 66.175.222.12

https://support.earthlink.net/articles/email/email-blocked-by-earthlink.php

They can also complain to Earthlink about non-spam mail from a MAILING LIST SERVICE like Groups.io being blocked. They don't block Yahoo or GoogleGroups, so why Groups.io? The info for doing that can be found here...
https://support.earthlink.net/contact/contact.php

I suggest initiating both a live chat and a phone call. If enough do that it will get their attention. They need to point out that Groups.io is a reputable and legitimate subscription mailing list service that requires subscribers to verify their intent to subscribe by verifying their email addresses... after which the messages from various interest groups hosted by Groups.io are solicited and are NOT spam. As Shal said, "Groups.io should be whitelisted as a legit email service."

Having worked the abuse desk for a small local ISP quite some years ago, I'm aghast at the careless blocking practices being employed these days... and Gmail isn't the solution.

-------------------------------------------------------

Users are going to have to take on a more active role in this, particularly in complaining to their providers about blocking known e-mail list services that can send messages to anyone if and only if they have subscribed to get them.

 

Groups.io needs to be whitelisted and the more customers that complain to their e-mail service providers about this the faster it will happen.

 

Cheers,

Joseph


Blaster
 

Hi Joseph, It may be possible that groups.io isn't being blacklisted
per say, but it's just not clearing the security filters of earthlinks
mail servers. I'm not a member of a google group or a yahoo group, so
I couldn't test their mail servers. I did however, find the groups.io
mail servers don't pass DMARC security protocols. The SPF record and
DKIM records did pass, however,
many sysadmins are using DMARC as the new gold standard for mail
security. If someone could check the headers of a google or yahoo
group email and check to see if they pass the DMARC test, it would let
us know if this is fixable, or would your idea of having earthlink
white list all of groups.io be a better approach to solving this
issue. If someone at groups.io looks at the following, it may shed
some light on the problem at hand.

for a DKIM alignment to pass, the "From" domain must match the "d="
domain of the DKIM signature.
The "d=" domain is: groups.io
The "From" domain is: gmail.com

For the SPF alignment to pass the "Return-path" domain must match the
"From" domain.
The "Return-Path" domain is: groups.io
The "From" domain is: google.com

One or both of those need to match in order for DMARC to pass. Now, we
are talking about a listserv, so I'm not exactly sure on how to go
about correcting this problem, or if it can be fixed at all, but I
wanted to throw it out there for you to investigate.

HTH,
Blaster

On 3/2/19, Joseph Lee <joseph.lee22590@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi everyone,



Below is an email I received from Brian V regarding Earthlink issue a
member
of this forum cluster is having. Please follow what Brian is saying below
and help convince Earthlink to minimize Groups.IO domain blacklisting in
the
future:



Earthlink issues have been under hot and heavy discussion on the
Group Manager's Forum in topic:


<https://groups.io/g/GroupManagersForum/topic/help_earthlink_now_bouncing/30
181422?p=,,,20,0,0,0::recentpostdate%2Fsticky,,,20,2,0,30181422>
Help: Earthlink now bouncing emails sent to *me* from Groups.io groups I
own



These are just that, Earthlink issues, and one of the most
recent
offerings pretty much sums it up:



Tell them to visit the link below and follow directions found there. The IP
address for Groups.io mail server is 66.175.222.12


<https://support.earthlink.net/articles/email/email-blocked-by-earthlink.php
https://support.earthlink.net/articles/email/email-blocked-by-earthlink.php

They can also complain to Earthlink about non-spam mail from a MAILING LIST
SERVICE like Groups.io being blocked. They don't block Yahoo or
GoogleGroups, so why Groups.io? The info for doing that can be found
here...
<https://support.earthlink.net/contact/contact.php>
https://support.earthlink.net/contact/contact.php

I suggest initiating both a live chat and a phone call. If enough do that
it
will get their attention. They need to point out that Groups.io is a
reputable and legitimate subscription mailing list service that requires
subscribers to verify their intent to subscribe by verifying their email
addresses... after which the messages from various interest groups hosted
by
Groups.io are solicited and are NOT spam. As Shal said, "Groups.io should
be
whitelisted as a legit email service."

Having worked the abuse desk for a small local ISP quite some years ago,
I'm
aghast at the careless blocking practices being employed these days... and
Gmail isn't the solution.

-------------------------------------------------------

Users are going to have to take on a more active role in this, particularly
in complaining to their providers about blocking known e-mail list services
that can send messages to anyone if and only if they have subscribed to get
them.



Groups.io needs to be whitelisted and the more customers that complain to
their e-mail service providers about this the faster it will happen.



Cheers,

Joseph





Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

Regardless of the behind the scenes checking mechanisms, e-mail service providers routinely override these via whitelisting.

Groups.io cannot generate spam, period.  You can and do only get messages from anything ending in groups.io if you subscribe to it.

In the final analysis, if end users of an e-mail service provider don't start screaming bloody murder when this keeps happening, again and again, it will not be fixed.  I know that Groups.io ownership has had multiple discussions over time with a number of e-mail service providers about this.  Those that were responsive and did their homework whitelisted anything ending in groups.io ages ago.   Those that have not been, and some of them are major providers, will not respond until or unless enough of their customers raise a stink about this situation recurring.  The customers are going to have to be the squeaky wheels.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

     The Internet is so big, so powerful and pointless that for some people it is a complete substitute for life.

                ~ Andrew Brown (1938-1994)

 


Blaster
 

Hi Brian, I don't mean to disagree with you and Joseph or for that
matter, defend the actions of these large companies and their
practices. I only ment to point out this may be fixable from the
groups.io side of the fence. DMARC standards have been adopted because
of their ability to eliminate "spoofing' and other fraud perpetrated
by spammers to send, what looks like legitimate email, but in
actuality is just some type of scam or spam. Groups.io has accurately
posted the SPF record and DKIM key pairs, but there's no DMARC record
on file. Without a DMARC record explaining their mailing systems
explicitly, they are considered out of alignment. The groups.io
webmasters could create this .txt record and apply it to the DNS
record to show these hyper-active spam filters that all groups.io mail
is legitimate and should be passed through. Creating a DMARC record is
not too difficult, especially since a blind guy on a tech list has
done it dozens of times, lol. Anyway, without knowing the details of
how their servers are set up I can only speculate as to the reasons
why they don't give this a try. It I know some folks on the list have
had success twisting arms and getting some companies to do the right
thing, but I've never had any myself, so I thought I'd throw in an
alternate suggestion on how to stop this from happening. Hope this
message doesn't sound like I'm trying to undermind your efforts, that
isn't my intention.

HTH,
Blaster

On 3/3/19, Brian Vogel <britechguy@gmail.com> wrote:
Regardless of the behind the scenes checking mechanisms, e-mail service
providers routinely override these via whitelisting.

Groups.io cannot generate spam, period. You can and do only get messages
from anything ending in groups.io if you subscribe to it.

In the final analysis, if end users of an e-mail service provider don't
start screaming bloody murder when this keeps happening, again and again, it
will not be fixed. I know that Groups.io ownership has had multiple
discussions over time with a number of e-mail service providers about this.
Those that were responsive and did their homework whitelisted anything
ending in groups.io ages ago. Those that have not been, and some of them
are major providers, will not respond until or unless enough of their
customers raise a stink about this situation recurring. The customers are
going to have to be the squeaky wheels.
--

Brian *-* Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763

*The Internet is so big, so powerful and pointless that for some people
it is a complete substitute for life.*

** ~ Andrew Brown (1938-1994)**




Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

Blaster,

         I will pass this information along to the owner of Groups.io via the beta group.  He may or may not be aware of it (though I'd say it's probably the former).

         I also want to emphasize that I wasn't criticizing your offering in any way, just pointing out that very often until and unless customers start screaming loudly about this sort of thing, it never gets resolved.

         For this particular instance, whitelisting is the perfect, and appropriate, solution for the e-mail service providers to take.  They already do so for other e-mail list services, and since Groups.io is one, that same courtesy should apply.  Groups.io does not spam, so allowing spam trapping mechanisms that shouldn't kick in to keep kicking in is problematic.
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

     The Internet is so big, so powerful and pointless that for some people it is a complete substitute for life.

                ~ Andrew Brown (1938-1994)