sticky Fine-Grained Control Over the Group Messages You Receive from Groups.io


g melconian <gmelconian619@...>
 

hello bryan, thanks for the wonderful explanation on the matter. 


Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

On Sun, Jul 21, 2019 at 11:55 AM, Marcio wrote:
update to the document itself or are you just reposting it?
Strictly a reminder reposting.  The last significant updates to this were in May 2018 when I was assisted by another member who customized some of the material such that it was more specific to navigating with a screen reader than my original had been.
 
--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362
The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


 

Brian,
Time for the refresher notice on this information, since the last time it was posted was last November.
Hmmm, any update to the document itself or are you just reposting it?
I've already downloaded it so that's why I'm asking.

Cheers,
Marcio AKA Starboy

Sent from a galaxy far, far away.

--
Are you a Thunderbird user? Then join the Thunderbird mailing list to help and be helped with all Thunderbird things - questions, features, add-ons and much more!


 

Hi everyone,

I’m going to make this thread a sticky one (if needed) in hopes that folks can be reminded as to how to control topic “subscriptions”.

Cheers,

Joseph

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io <win10@win10.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2019 8:48 AM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] Fine-Grained Control Over the Group Messages You Receive from Groups.io

 

Time for the refresher notice on this information, since the last time it was posted was last November.

Groups.io users have pretty exquisite control over which messages they do or do not receive for each and every group to which they're subscribed.  Some are really simple to use (e.g., Mute this Topic) while others require a bit more effort (e.g., setting up topic preview).   But everyone should know about the tools at their disposal and use those when desired, as what different members may wish to see or not see is a very personal decision.   Download either one of the documents whose links are provided below.  The only difference is the file format, MS-Word docx or PDF:

Controlling the Messages You Receive via E-Mail from Groups.io (docx)

Controlling the Messages You Receive via E-Mail from Groups.io  (PDF)

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362
The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

Time for the refresher notice on this information, since the last time it was posted was last November.

Groups.io users have pretty exquisite control over which messages they do or do not receive for each and every group to which they're subscribed.  Some are really simple to use (e.g., Mute this Topic) while others require a bit more effort (e.g., setting up topic preview).   But everyone should know about the tools at their disposal and use those when desired, as what different members may wish to see or not see is a very personal decision.   Download either one of the documents whose links are provided below.  The only difference is the file format, MS-Word docx or PDF:

Controlling the Messages You Receive via E-Mail from Groups.io (docx)

Controlling the Messages You Receive via E-Mail from Groups.io  (PDF)

--

Brian - Windows 10 Pro, 64-Bit, Version 1903, Build 18362
The purpose of education is not to validate ignorance but to overcome it.
       ~ Lawrence Krauss


Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

Looks like it's about time for my sorta quarterly rerun of the following information:  Controlling the Messages You Receive via E-Mail from Groups.io
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763  

     You can safely assume you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.

               ~ Anne Lamott

 


Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

By the way, member Timothy's reworking of my original instructions, which note that your browser screen needs to be maximized in order for all this to work and how to insure that it is before starting, is here:  https://win10.groups.io/g/win10/message/16575 
--
Brian  Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1709, Build 16299  (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

Like all weak men he laid an exaggerated stress on not changing one's mind.
   ~ Somerset Maugham

 


Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

It's clear that this topic needs a bump again, and I intend to bump it every time there's a complaint about traffic from this group.   It is entirely within a member's control to limit the number, types, and timing of messages received from any Groups.io group.

The original post, where I outline the steps, can be found at:  https://win10.groups.io/g/win10/message/15639

There is subsequent Q&A in that topic which bears occasional re-reading but there's no sense in repeating what's on the archive.  If you wish to read all the back and forth then do a screen reader search for "View All" once the message is up and you should land on the link for "View All XX Messages In Topic" where the XX is the message count and can, of course, change if additional messages get added.
--
Brian  Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1709, Build 16299  (dot level on request - it changes too often to keep in signature)

Like all weak men he laid an exaggerated stress on not changing one's mind.
   ~ Somerset Maugham

 


Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

Cher,

         You're quite welcome.    It actually makes me feel good when folks try out the advanced features since so many of "the usual complaints" regarding mailing lists is that people get far more falling in to their inbox than they'd like, and in many cases there is no mechanism to control that flow, let alone the kind of controls that Groups.io offers.

          What makes this even more peculiar from my end is that I don't participate via the e-mail interface.  I far prefer the web forum interface, but given what I've found when trying to navigate it with a screen reader I can see why using e-mail in a familiar e-mail client or e-mail web interface would be far preferable for someone using a screen reader.
--
Brian  Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1703, Build 15063.413

Like all weak men he laid an exaggerated stress on not changing one's mind.
   ~ Somerset Maugham

 


Cher
 

Thanks so much for all the background work to make the advanced preferences configurable and workable for all of us! This should be very nice! Thanks for the gfreat explanations.

 

Cher

 

 

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io [mailto:win10@win10.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2017 7:56 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] Fine-Grained Control Over the Group Messages You Receive from Groups.io

 

Cher,

           I now have an answer back, and it makes infinite sense.

           The links I listed before are for your random generic message or digest when no advanced features are set up.

            If you set up "Following Only" along with "First Message Also" the first message you receive will have a "Follow This Topic" link where the "Mute This Topic" link is in a regular message, because other than the first message, all the rest are automatically effectively muted if you don't elect to follow the topic.

            In the followed messages you receive in the position where "Mute This Topic" would appear in a regular message will be replaced with "Unfollow this Topic," which effectively mutes a topic when you stop following it with the "Following Only" feature enabled.

            Mark is avoiding putting in place holders or links that make no sense based upon the settings you have set up to control message flow.
--
Brian  Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1703, Build 15063.413

Like all weak men he laid an exaggerated stress on not changing one's mind.
   ~ Somerset Maugham

 


Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

Cher,

           I now have an answer back, and it makes infinite sense.

           The links I listed before are for your random generic message or digest when no advanced features are set up.

            If you set up "Following Only" along with "First Message Also" the first message you receive will have a "Follow This Topic" link where the "Mute This Topic" link is in a regular message, because other than the first message, all the rest are automatically effectively muted if you don't elect to follow the topic.

            In the followed messages you receive in the position where "Mute This Topic" would appear in a regular message will be replaced with "Unfollow this Topic," which effectively mutes a topic when you stop following it with the "Following Only" feature enabled.

            Mark is avoiding putting in place holders or links that make no sense based upon the settings you have set up to control message flow.
--
Brian  Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1703, Build 15063.413

Like all weak men he laid an exaggerated stress on not changing one's mind.
   ~ Somerset Maugham

 


Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

Cher,

           I need to follow-up with Mark Fletcher, as I'm not finding a "Follow Topic" link in my digests or individual messages that I've collected in recent months.

           There has got to be a way to mark a specific topic as followed at the original message level, or else it makes no sense.  Something seems to have gone awry here.
--
Brian  Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1703, Build 15063.413

Like all weak men he laid an exaggerated stress on not changing one's mind.
   ~ Somerset Maugham

 


Cher
 

Dear Brian- I was able to follow Tim’s instructions on FF, but although I have IE set to come up maximized, the yahoo groups page was not and I as a blind  user had no clue. Also, my version of IE11 froze all three times I maximized the page manually- so what you are saying about browsers, apps, etc. is certainly validated.

 

Cher

.

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io [mailto:win10@win10.groups.io] On Behalf Of Brian Vogel
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 11:32 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] Fine-Grained Control Over the Group Messages You Receive from Groups.io

 

Two observations:

1.  I cannot possibly test out "all situations" with regard to Groups.io subscriptions because they vary by individual user.  I am subscribed to a total of ten groups, including subgroups, so for single group subscribers it sounds like something is different.

2.  It has been mentioned, on I don't know how many topics in this group and others, that when dealing with web browsers (and other apps/applications) that it's always "safest" to be certain you have your screen maximized first.  I actually do that myself because it's just too darned easy to switch windows via point and click with the mouse if you're at the edge of one window that's just ever so slightly less than maximized and you hit the pixels for the window beneath that are just peeking out from the edge.  I had presumed that "make sure you're maximized" when working on a PC was pretty much standard operating procedure.  I will say I've made it standard operating procedure for my students because of what I've learned from this and other screen reader related groups.

I hope that Timothy's additions may have resolved the issues with screen maximization at a minimum and with finding the "Advanced Preferences" link.

I will be happy to try to replicate what happens for any individual who asks me to do so, but that may require your trusting me to access your account strictly for the purposes of testing.  I can't delete my groups to make "my world look like yours" but I'm more than willing to take a look at your world strictly for the sake of helping out as far as Groups.io goes.  If that were to occur I would ask that you change your password before involving me and changing it again after our work is complete.

I also haven't played with any of the screen readers in "tandem mode" so that would be an option, too.  But I'd expect it to be messy, at least from my end, since I'd be a complete newbie with that feature.
--
Brian  Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1703, Build 15063.413

Like all weak men he laid an exaggerated stress on not changing one's mind.
   ~ Somerset Maugham

 


Cher
 

This was the hidden problem! I still had problems with IE which froze immediately when maximized both times I tried it. However, FF is playing nice, thank you J The only thing I cannot see in your message  below is a link to indicate that you want to follow the topic. Does the ‘follow link’ only show up after the advanced preferences are selected and saved?

 

IE comes up already maximized for me- so, you are absolutely right that a blind user cannot detect that the yahoo groups site is not auto maximizing.

 

Your directions should be archived, seriously.

 

Cher

 

 

 

From: win10@win10.groups.io [mailto:win10@win10.groups.io] On Behalf Of Timothy via Groups.Io
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 9:48 PM
To: win10@win10.groups.io
Subject: Re: [win10] Fine-Grained Control Over the Group Messages You Receive from Groups.io

 

I just realized that the interface changes depending on whether or not the window is maximized, i.e., the interface changes depending on screen dimensions. Let me revise Brian's message with the interface I see to see if it helps you or not.

Advanced Preferences for Your Group Subscription

Once you get to the main Groups.io webpage, http://groups.io, you will need to navigate to the "Log In" (two words) link and activate it. Once you've entered your username, which is the e-mail address you've used to subscribe to the group(s) you routinely read, and password, activate the "Log In" button and you will be taken to the "Your Subscriptions" page.

  1. If your browser window is not already maximized, do so now (keyboard shortcut is Alt+Space, then X or Windows+Up-arrow).
    1. If the page is restored or minimized, then at the top of the page you'll see a button labeled "Toggle navigation", followed by a link with a graphic labeled "groups.io". This version of the interface will not allow you to edit any of the subscription preferences as far as I can tell.
    2. If the page is maximized, then the top of the page should have a link with a graphic labeled "groups.io", followed by a link labeled "Your Groups".
  2. Use your screen reader's table navigation commands to move to the first table found on this page. The columns should read "Group", "# Members", "Latest Message", and "Delivery". Move to the row for which you wish to set up your advanced preferences, navigate over to the Delivery column, and activate the link found there. You will have to start back at this step for each group for which you wish to set up the advanced mail preferences.
  3. Just so you're aware these are on this page, there is a radio button cluster for the regular delivery options: All Messages, Full Featured Digest, Plain Digest, Daily Summary, Special Notices Only, No email. This is immediately followed by two checkboxes related to using a signature: Use signature for web posting and Use signature for e-mail posting. These are followed by the signature edit box, should you wish to set up a signature that goes on to all your messages if you check one of the previously mentioned checkboxes.
  4. Use your screen reader quick navigation command to find and activate the "Advanced Preferences" heading level 3 link.
  5. There are three major sections to the advanced preferences:
    1. Message Selection. There are two radio buttons: All Messages and Following Only. If the first is selected then every message sent to the group will be sent to you in the format you selected for e-mail delivery. If you select Following Only then the only messages you will receive are messages you've chosen to follow. There is a checkbox associated with "Following Only," "First Message Also." If this checkbox is checked it serves as a selective override such that the first message in any new topic is sent to you so that you can see it and elect to follow it with the link at the end of the message if you wish to keep monitoring this topic.
    2. Replies. There is a checkbox, "Auto follow replies," which will make any topic that you start yourself, or any topic in which you reply to a message, followed. This checkbox is generally only used if you have elected to use the "Following Only" feature for message selection.
    3. Max Attachment Size (only for groups that allow attachments). This is followed by a dropdown box that allows you to choose from four different maximum sizes for attachments to be delivered to you via e-mail. The default is unlimited size. If you're using an internet service with data caps you may wish to change this. If you choose the zero option it means that all attachments will be stripped before a message is sent to you.
  6. Find the "Save" button and activate it to save these settings.

As you can see, if you choose a setup where you have elected to get messages with the "Following Only" option combined with the "First message also" checkbox this will greatly decrease the flow of e-mail you receive while allowing you to decide for each topic whether you wish to follow it to receive further messages or not. If you do nothing then you will not receive any additional messages for that particular topic unless you hit the link to follow it at the end of the message or reply to it, if the "auto follow replies" option was checked.


Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

Timothy,

           I can't explain why, once you're on the Messages page, doing a search for "Subscription" doesn't whip you right over to the "Subscription" link that's in the control bar on the left hand side of that page (along with all the other control links that are accessible to you as a user, but weren't pertinent).  If you have more than one group using the "Your Groups" control to transition between them allows you to stay on the same page you're on no matter what group you're looking at.  I tested those steps out, using NVDA on all three of the major web browsers: IE11, Chrome, & Firefox, and I cannot get them to fail.  They work each and every time and without being there to see what someone else is doing I can't fathom how they're failing for them if they're followed to the letter.

           That URL list you give is not rock-solid consistent and how I wish it was.  The vast majority of Groups.io groups match that formula but it depends on precisely when they were created.  Groups.io was in very late beta stage when it "hit the air" and things did change.  It's worth trying that route, though, and seeing if you land where you expect to.

            In any event, my main point is making people aware that there are some very specific controls over messages that can only be tweaked by the web interface.  Trying to do some of the "If this, then do you want that sub-option or that other sub-option," is just not easily feasible via e-mail.
--
Brian  Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1703, Build 15063.413

Like all weak men he laid an exaggerated stress on not changing one's mind.
   ~ Somerset Maugham

 


Timothy
 

I honestly don't think things are all that different, though I am not subscribed to any subgroups. The "Your Groups" link at the top does expand to show what groups you are subscribed to, but I have no idea on how to get to the "subscriptions" link after focusing on the group. Pressing enter on the entry for your group just puts you on the messages view, which was why I gave instructions using the table found on the "Your Subscriptions" page instead.

So to summarize, the "Your Groups" link at the top of every Groups.io page does expand to the list of groups one is subscribed to, then a horizontal rule/separator (not able to be activated), and finally a link labeled "Manage My Subscriptions". Activating that link will land you on "Your Subscriptions" page, which is where the table I referred to is located.

If all comes to fail, one can just go to:
https://groups.io/g/[groupName]/editsub
where [groupName] is the name of the group, e.g., https://groups.io/g/win10/editsub.

Timothy


Brian Vogel <britechguy@...>
 

Two observations:

1.  I cannot possibly test out "all situations" with regard to Groups.io subscriptions because they vary by individual user.  I am subscribed to a total of ten groups, including subgroups, so for single group subscribers it sounds like something is different.

2.  It has been mentioned, on I don't know how many topics in this group and others, that when dealing with web browsers (and other apps/applications) that it's always "safest" to be certain you have your screen maximized first.  I actually do that myself because it's just too darned easy to switch windows via point and click with the mouse if you're at the edge of one window that's just ever so slightly less than maximized and you hit the pixels for the window beneath that are just peeking out from the edge.  I had presumed that "make sure you're maximized" when working on a PC was pretty much standard operating procedure.  I will say I've made it standard operating procedure for my students because of what I've learned from this and other screen reader related groups.

I hope that Timothy's additions may have resolved the issues with screen maximization at a minimum and with finding the "Advanced Preferences" link.

I will be happy to try to replicate what happens for any individual who asks me to do so, but that may require your trusting me to access your account strictly for the purposes of testing.  I can't delete my groups to make "my world look like yours" but I'm more than willing to take a look at your world strictly for the sake of helping out as far as Groups.io goes.  If that were to occur I would ask that you change your password before involving me and changing it again after our work is complete.

I also haven't played with any of the screen readers in "tandem mode" so that would be an option, too.  But I'd expect it to be messy, at least from my end, since I'd be a complete newbie with that feature.
--
Brian  Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1703, Build 15063.413

Like all weak men he laid an exaggerated stress on not changing one's mind.
   ~ Somerset Maugham

 


Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgilland07@...>
 


Maybe saying it was an accessibility issue was going a bit too far.
 
What I meant, basically was, if you couldn't see the screen, then I'd think having it maximized vs. restored would be a nightmare if the blind individual didn't know that things changed just by resizing the window in such ways.
 
OK, it might not fit under being an A11Y or a W3C crapout, but I could still see where it would cause many many problems of confusion which very very easily through means of certain CSS stylesheets could fix a lot more effectively.
---
Christopher Gilland
Co-founder of Genuine Safe Haven Ministries
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 10:50 PM
Subject: Re: [win10] Fine-Grained Control Over the Group Messages You Receive from Groups.io

If you are saying "accessibility issue" meaning use with Assistive Technologies, then it's not an issue by any means. There are two or more layouts so that smaller devices won't have a cluttered interface. I'm sure functions of the site are accessible, i.e., they can be accessed, I just don't know exactly how yet.

Timothy


Timothy
 



If you are saying "accessibility issue" meaning use with Assistive Technologies, then it's not an issue by any means. There are two or more layouts so that smaller devices won't have a cluttered interface. I'm sure functions of the site are accessible, i.e., they can be accessed, I just don't know exactly how yet.

Timothy


Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgilland07@...>
 


Ow!
 
Wo! Yikes!
 
That's an accessibility problem, if ever there be one!
---
Christopher Gilland
Co-founder of Genuine Safe Haven Ministries
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 9:48 PM
Subject: Re: [win10] Fine-Grained Control Over the Group Messages You Receive from Groups.io

I just realized that the interface changes depending on whether or not the window is maximized, i.e., the interface changes depending on screen dimensions. Let me revise Brian's message with the interface I see to see if it helps you or not.

Advanced Preferences for Your Group Subscription

Once you get to the main Groups.io webpage, http://groups.io, you will need to navigate to the "Log In" (two words) link and activate it. Once you've entered your username, which is the e-mail address you've used to subscribe to the group(s) you routinely read, and password, activate the "Log In" button and you will be taken to the "Your Subscriptions" page.

  1. If your browser window is not already maximized, do so now (keyboard shortcut is Alt+Space, then X or Windows+Up-arrow).
    1. If the page is restored or minimized, then at the top of the page you'll see a button labeled "Toggle navigation", followed by a link with a graphic labeled "groups.io". This version of the interface will not allow you to edit any of the subscription preferences as far as I can tell.
    2. If the page is maximized, then the top of the page should have a link with a graphic labeled "groups.io", followed by a link labeled "Your Groups".
  2. Use your screen reader's table navigation commands to move to the first table found on this page. The columns should read "Group", "# Members", "Latest Message", and "Delivery". Move to the row for which you wish to set up your advanced preferences, navigate over to the Delivery column, and activate the link found there. You will have to start back at this step for each group for which you wish to set up the advanced mail preferences.
  3. Just so you're aware these are on this page, there is a radio button cluster for the regular delivery options: All Messages, Full Featured Digest, Plain Digest, Daily Summary, Special Notices Only, No email. This is immediately followed by two checkboxes related to using a signature: Use signature for web posting and Use signature for e-mail posting. These are followed by the signature edit box, should you wish to set up a signature that goes on to all your messages if you check one of the previously mentioned checkboxes.
  4. Use your screen reader quick navigation command to find and activate the "Advanced Preferences" heading level 3 link.
  5. There are three major sections to the advanced preferences:
    1. Message Selection. There are two radio buttons: All Messages and Following Only. If the first is selected then every message sent to the group will be sent to you in the format you selected for e-mail delivery. If you select Following Only then the only messages you will receive are messages you've chosen to follow. There is a checkbox associated with "Following Only," "First Message Also." If this checkbox is checked it serves as a selective override such that the first message in any new topic is sent to you so that you can see it and elect to follow it with the link at the end of the message if you wish to keep monitoring this topic.
    2. Replies. There is a checkbox, "Auto follow replies," which will make any topic that you start yourself, or any topic in which you reply to a message, followed. This checkbox is generally only used if you have elected to use the "Following Only" feature for message selection.
    3. Max Attachment Size (only for groups that allow attachments). This is followed by a dropdown box that allows you to choose from four different maximum sizes for attachments to be delivered to you via e-mail. The default is unlimited size. If you're using an internet service with data caps you may wish to change this. If you choose the zero option it means that all attachments will be stripped before a message is sent to you.
  6. Find the "Save" button and activate it to save these settings.

As you can see, if you choose a setup where you have elected to get messages with the "Following Only" option combined with the "First message also" checkbox this will greatly decrease the flow of e-mail you receive while allowing you to decide for each topic whether you wish to follow it to receive further messages or not. If you do nothing then you will not receive any additional messages for that particular topic unless you hit the link to follow it at the end of the message or reply to it, if the "auto follow replies" option was checked.